Sabbatical Wonders
Greetings all!
As you know I am trying to learn about cross generational ministry and LGBTQ inclusion in Greece. Well, yesterday I had such an interesting conversation with a 35-year-old single Greek woman. I saw her at church on Sunday, and then yesterday I went to the monastery to visit with a nun. The visit with the nun did not work out, but this woman was visiting the nunnery and she was willing to talk with me for about 20-30 minutes. I will use quotes... but of course, I do not remember exactly word for word what she said. I did take notes, tho, while she was speaking so will use my notes.
I asked her to explain the Sunday worship service on May 6. Me: “Why did families with small children go directly to the front of the church and stand there during the end of the worship service?” She told me that it was a memorial service. So, most likely, the families that stood in the front were loved ones of the person who died. After worship, the church served Koliva, the Greek food made with boiled wheat that Robert has made in honor of his mother.
I asked her if young families are attending Greek Orthodox worship very often. She told me that yes, much more so in Skala than in Hora (the town we live close to.) So, Robert and I hope to attend the worship on Sunday, May 13, in the town of Skala. This 35-year-old told me she has attended the Skala church and there is a weekly time during the school year when the priest teaches the young people. She said the young people knew answers to questions she didn’t even know as a 35-year-old. So, I hope to see this. The priest is educating the children. So far, that was interesting and exciting. She said he even used technology!
Then, I told her I have a particular interest in people who are LGBTQ and asked if she had an opinion. What she said to me was so negative I am wondering how much of what she told me I should print. I am going to print some of what she said because it is what I came to Greece to learn. Please know I do not agree with what she said. What troubles me is that she most likely got this from her religion. So, when the priest is teaching children, I have a sad worry that at least some young Greek Orthodox children will have it engrained in them (at a young age) that it is not normal to be gay.
The 35-year-old woman appeared to be very devout and smart. She said she was having a visit to the Patmos monastery to be close to Christ. She now lives on another island, so her time at this convent is her vacation. She is a photographer who was born in Greece, but has lived in Australia for a few years. Her English is very good. She is an example of a person who is repeating what she has been taught. It is in part due to her love of Christ, that she hears the priest and figures his words are true.
Her comments ranged from saying that it's wrong to be gay because of Adam and Eve, then saying that 90% of those who are LGBTQ have psychological problems. I did not ask her where she got her statistics because I wanted her to keep talking. She went on to say that it matters that men wear pants and women wear skirts because, if a woman wears pants something happens to her psychologically. “Clothing matters also because if we see the priest in his t-shirt, we won’t have the same feeling of honor. Clothing conveys honor.”
And then she went deeper into her indoctrination saying that many lesbians play sports and that playing sports raises their testosterone levels and contributes to their being gay, and again that it is psychologically and biologically not right to be lesbian or gay. And finally, and most disturbingly, she said how sometimes the priest knows divinely what is troubling a person. One time the priest knew that a 19-year-old who had psychological problems due to something that happened to her when she was only 5 months along in the womb. These kinds of psychological problems and traumas sometimes are also why someone may be LGBTQ. Wow!
Somehow, we moved on. I must have asked her about the form of Greek Orthodox worship, how priests are taught to use the exact same liturgy that has been used for centuries. And that in my religion it is OK to change music, prayers, most anything from Sunday to Sunday. She likes her religion the way it is. “However we have made some changes.” She used a word that translated into English is “God’s Economy.” “We Greek Orthodox people believe in God’s economy. An example of this is that now someone can be married three times and still be in our church. We decided that if we were to not let someone in who had failed marriages, we surely are not helping them. Also, we have fasting requirements but use the principal of God’s economy in fasting. If someone is sick and needs to eat yoghurt to get better, the priest will not be strict about fasting. Eat what you need to to get healthy again. God’s economy. Or in Greek, “Economia Theo”
This is one twenty minute visit. She and I were sitting in the beautiful garden are of this nunnery or convent. They conduct worship there for the public on Sunday mornings and other times. We went to their 5:00 pm vesper service last night. I was hoping to visit with a nun, but could not find her. Robert got to visit with someone who was also visiting the monastery. He got to practice his Greek with her. I enjoyed listening to them talk. Hey, this blog got very long... so I will stop. If I can figure it out, ill also send some photos to Mary. Thank You Mary!!!
Thank you all for your prayers. So, I should not make global statements because of the anecdotal stories I’m hearing... but there does seem to be an overall theme emerging that it is not really OK to be LGBTQ and religious at the same time... I heard that from about 25+ of those who took my class in Athens. From three people in conversations on Patmos I’ve heard this.
The next island I’ll visit is Lesvos. I’ve heard from my university professor contact, Costas, that there are advocates for LGBTQ equality who have even organized on Lesvos.
I asked her to explain the Sunday worship service on May 6. Me: “Why did families with small children go directly to the front of the church and stand there during the end of the worship service?” She told me that it was a memorial service. So, most likely, the families that stood in the front were loved ones of the person who died. After worship, the church served Koliva, the Greek food made with boiled wheat that Robert has made in honor of his mother.
I asked her if young families are attending Greek Orthodox worship very often. She told me that yes, much more so in Skala than in Hora (the town we live close to.) So, Robert and I hope to attend the worship on Sunday, May 13, in the town of Skala. This 35-year-old told me she has attended the Skala church and there is a weekly time during the school year when the priest teaches the young people. She said the young people knew answers to questions she didn’t even know as a 35-year-old. So, I hope to see this. The priest is educating the children. So far, that was interesting and exciting. She said he even used technology!
Then, I told her I have a particular interest in people who are LGBTQ and asked if she had an opinion. What she said to me was so negative I am wondering how much of what she told me I should print. I am going to print some of what she said because it is what I came to Greece to learn. Please know I do not agree with what she said. What troubles me is that she most likely got this from her religion. So, when the priest is teaching children, I have a sad worry that at least some young Greek Orthodox children will have it engrained in them (at a young age) that it is not normal to be gay.
The 35-year-old woman appeared to be very devout and smart. She said she was having a visit to the Patmos monastery to be close to Christ. She now lives on another island, so her time at this convent is her vacation. She is a photographer who was born in Greece, but has lived in Australia for a few years. Her English is very good. She is an example of a person who is repeating what she has been taught. It is in part due to her love of Christ, that she hears the priest and figures his words are true.
Her comments ranged from saying that it's wrong to be gay because of Adam and Eve, then saying that 90% of those who are LGBTQ have psychological problems. I did not ask her where she got her statistics because I wanted her to keep talking. She went on to say that it matters that men wear pants and women wear skirts because, if a woman wears pants something happens to her psychologically. “Clothing matters also because if we see the priest in his t-shirt, we won’t have the same feeling of honor. Clothing conveys honor.”
And then she went deeper into her indoctrination saying that many lesbians play sports and that playing sports raises their testosterone levels and contributes to their being gay, and again that it is psychologically and biologically not right to be lesbian or gay. And finally, and most disturbingly, she said how sometimes the priest knows divinely what is troubling a person. One time the priest knew that a 19-year-old who had psychological problems due to something that happened to her when she was only 5 months along in the womb. These kinds of psychological problems and traumas sometimes are also why someone may be LGBTQ. Wow!
Somehow, we moved on. I must have asked her about the form of Greek Orthodox worship, how priests are taught to use the exact same liturgy that has been used for centuries. And that in my religion it is OK to change music, prayers, most anything from Sunday to Sunday. She likes her religion the way it is. “However we have made some changes.” She used a word that translated into English is “God’s Economy.” “We Greek Orthodox people believe in God’s economy. An example of this is that now someone can be married three times and still be in our church. We decided that if we were to not let someone in who had failed marriages, we surely are not helping them. Also, we have fasting requirements but use the principal of God’s economy in fasting. If someone is sick and needs to eat yoghurt to get better, the priest will not be strict about fasting. Eat what you need to to get healthy again. God’s economy. Or in Greek, “Economia Theo”
This is one twenty minute visit. She and I were sitting in the beautiful garden are of this nunnery or convent. They conduct worship there for the public on Sunday mornings and other times. We went to their 5:00 pm vesper service last night. I was hoping to visit with a nun, but could not find her. Robert got to visit with someone who was also visiting the monastery. He got to practice his Greek with her. I enjoyed listening to them talk. Hey, this blog got very long... so I will stop. If I can figure it out, ill also send some photos to Mary. Thank You Mary!!!
Thank you all for your prayers. So, I should not make global statements because of the anecdotal stories I’m hearing... but there does seem to be an overall theme emerging that it is not really OK to be LGBTQ and religious at the same time... I heard that from about 25+ of those who took my class in Athens. From three people in conversations on Patmos I’ve heard this.
The next island I’ll visit is Lesvos. I’ve heard from my university professor contact, Costas, that there are advocates for LGBTQ equality who have even organized on Lesvos.